Comments on: Why whybasecampsux.org erm… sux http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/ OKCOOL make cool digital applications. We help companies balance brand and technology. From mashups to mobile shennanigans to social networks. Tue, 09 Mar 2010 13:38:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Nick http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/comment-page-1/#comment-2161 Nick Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:01:39 +0000 #comment-2161 @tom - I guess that shows how much I know!! I can see how you add comments to do items and I use that facility myself quite a bit but I can't see how to start a message - maybe that's the same thing. In which case my apologies, I use comments on to do's pretty much every day! (although it's been about for a while I think). I guess the point I was trying to make was that they deliberately keep the app simple and are less likely to implement more complex requests. thanks, Nick. @tom – I guess that shows how much I know!! I can see how you add comments to do items and I use that facility myself quite a bit but I can’t see how to start a message – maybe that’s the same thing. In which case my apologies, I use comments on to do’s pretty much every day! (although it’s been about for a while I think). I guess the point I was trying to make was that they deliberately keep the app simple and are less likely to implement more complex requests.

thanks, Nick.

]]> By: Tom http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/comment-page-1/#comment-2145 Tom Fri, 03 Apr 2009 17:05:32 +0000 #comment-2145 @nick - thanks for your in depth response. Out of interest: "basecamp are never going to add the facility to link messages to do items - it’s just too complex for their app." Basecamp have implemented this now, you can start messages based on to do items! Cheers Tom @nick – thanks for your in depth response. Out of interest:

“basecamp are never going to add the facility to link messages to do items – it’s just too complex for their app.”

Basecamp have implemented this now, you can start messages based on to do items!

Cheers
Tom

]]> By: Nick http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/comment-page-1/#comment-2144 Nick Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:39:18 +0000 #comment-2144 @Tom - basecamp are never going to add the facility to link messages to do items - it's just too complex for their app. We use basecamp message all the time and a single message could relate to a whole load of to do's. It's not that I think your suggestion is a bad idea, it's just a step too far for basecamp in my view. It's pretty obvious that they are trying to keep the app deliberately simple - new features might be great for some users but will put others off and I guess they have to keep that in mind. I agree they should listen to customer feedback and I think they do. We use basecamp and we just accept that it does what it does and it does and it does it well. For us we find more benefits to than drawbacks - and for 50 dollars a month we're not going to start stamping our feet and asking them to dance to our tune. If we reach a stage where we feel that it's a hindrance rather than a help we'll just switch to a different app. No need for any fanfare. @ sux Editor "And it’s great because I’m getting something back from all the time and money I invested in the startup that failed in large part because of Basecamp’s limitations." Don't blame your failed start up on the limitations of piece of software. It was your choice to use it and given there's a free trial you can't go into it with anything other than open eyes. I know people who have built hugely successful design agencies and some still run all of their projects and operations on a bunch of dispersed spreadsheets, an accounts package and a shared hard drive. When they get introduced to tools like basecamp it makes their life a bit easier, but I don't think they'll ever wonder how they survived without it. If you want a tool that helps you to run your whole business operation, then it's bound to be complex and very personal to you. Basecamp and many of the other tools are never going to tick all of the boxes for you. If the software is going to be that important that it will make or break your business then you need to go out and get a developer to build a solution that fits your exact requirements. Or if you can build it yourself, then build it. Either way, you get something that's built to your spec, and then you'll have no gripes about it. If you do want changes, then it's likely that you'll be paying a lot more than 50 dollars a month to your developer, so you will be in a position to stamp your feet, make a fuss and get the changes you want. I think your list of basecamp alternatives is a good idea, but I really don't understand why some of those companies would want to advertise on a site that just slags off one of their competitors. We've built a tool for a single client that is web hosted and helps them to manage their projects and finances. We're now trying to re-develop it in a state that can be rolled out to more clients. We don't see it as a competitor to basecamp though - on the whole it's going to do a lot more stuff, but that won't make it a better app. It just means it will fit the needs of certain clients better. It won't have the collaborative aspect which I think basecamp does particularly well. It will be more about scheduling and finance. I'd love it to appear on a page of basecamp alternatives, but I'd never want it to be listed on a site like yours. You don't get ahead in business by slagging off your competitors - you do it by talking about your proposition what's good about it. Not what's bad about what everyone else is doing. that's my two penneth. @Tom – basecamp are never going to add the facility to link messages to do items – it’s just too complex for their app. We use basecamp message all the time and a single message could relate to a whole load of to do’s. It’s not that I think your suggestion is a bad idea, it’s just a step too far for basecamp in my view. It’s pretty obvious that they are trying to keep the app deliberately simple – new features might be great for some users but will put others off and I guess they have to keep that in mind. I agree they should listen to customer feedback and I think they do. We use basecamp and we just accept that it does what it does and it does and it does it well. For us we find more benefits to than drawbacks – and for 50 dollars a month we’re not going to start stamping our feet and asking them to dance to our tune. If we reach a stage where we feel that it’s a hindrance rather than a help we’ll just switch to a different app. No need for any fanfare.

@ sux Editor
“And it’s great because I’m getting something back from all the time and money I invested in the startup that failed in large part because of Basecamp’s limitations.”

Don’t blame your failed start up on the limitations of piece of software. It was your choice to use it and given there’s a free trial you can’t go into it with anything other than open eyes. I know people who have built hugely successful design agencies and some still run all of their projects and operations on a bunch of dispersed spreadsheets, an accounts package and a shared hard drive. When they get introduced to tools like basecamp it makes their life a bit easier, but I don’t think they’ll ever wonder how they survived without it.

If you want a tool that helps you to run your whole business operation, then it’s bound to be complex and very personal to you. Basecamp and many of the other tools are never going to tick all of the boxes for you. If the software is going to be that important that it will make or break your business then you need to go out and get a developer to build a solution that fits your exact requirements. Or if you can build it yourself, then build it. Either way, you get something that’s built to your spec, and then you’ll have no gripes about it. If you do want changes, then it’s likely that you’ll be paying a lot more than 50 dollars a month to your developer, so you will be in a position to stamp your feet, make a fuss and get the changes you want.

I think your list of basecamp alternatives is a good idea, but I really don’t understand why some of those companies would want to advertise on a site that just slags off one of their competitors.

We’ve built a tool for a single client that is web hosted and helps them to manage their projects and finances. We’re now trying to re-develop it in a state that can be rolled out to more clients. We don’t see it as a competitor to basecamp though – on the whole it’s going to do a lot more stuff, but that won’t make it a better app. It just means it will fit the needs of certain clients better. It won’t have the collaborative aspect which I think basecamp does particularly well. It will be more about scheduling and finance. I’d love it to appear on a page of basecamp alternatives, but I’d never want it to be listed on a site like yours. You don’t get ahead in business by slagging off your competitors – you do it by talking about your proposition what’s good about it. Not what’s bad about what everyone else is doing.

that’s my two penneth.

]]> By: J Jones http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/comment-page-1/#comment-2071 J Jones Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:08:09 +0000 #comment-2071 Basecamp's largest problem is not being able to associate due dates with tasks. This would be such an easy thing to fulfill. There's tons of people asking for it. However, they do have an API... and TeamworkPM does not. If Teamwork and Basecamp got together, that would be the product. Thinking they both need some gantt charts too. Basecamp’s largest problem is not being able to associate due dates with tasks. This would be such an easy thing to fulfill. There’s tons of people asking for it. However, they do have an API… and TeamworkPM does not. If Teamwork and Basecamp got together, that would be the product. Thinking they both need some gantt charts too.

]]> By: xobb http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/comment-page-1/#comment-1203 xobb Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:56:45 +0000 #comment-1203 Seems like both Basecamp, whydoesbasecampsux and your blog suck. Nothing interesting. ~BaseCamp user Seems like both Basecamp, whydoesbasecampsux and your blog suck. Nothing interesting.

~BaseCamp user

]]> By: The Perils of Punditry » Why Whybasecampsux.org Sucks http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/comment-page-1/#comment-1186 The Perils of Punditry » Why Whybasecampsux.org Sucks Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:53:16 +0000 #comment-1186 [...] to a blog post comment, the reason for Mr. Whybasecampsux.org’s anonymity is simple: More importantly I’m [...] [...] to a blog post comment, the reason for Mr. Whybasecampsux.org’s anonymity is simple: More importantly I’m [...]

]]> By: Vera http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/comment-page-1/#comment-1185 Vera Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:55:17 +0000 #comment-1185 Well, they still offer the free version that's kinda fail, but their new one is very nice and they do work with the community to integrate frequently suggested features, unlike Basecamp :( I think aC is doing a good job in attempting to take market share away from Basecamp by offering features that Basecamp refuses to. Granted, neither is perfect, but it looks like aC is trying harder. Btw, if you're interested in project management apps (like me, cause I'm weird), give Staction (http://staction.com) a try if you can get your hands on the private beta (I got one but I can't invite people myself). They have a twitter+basecamp approach which is kind of unique, but may be confusing for most clients :( Well, they still offer the free version that’s kinda fail, but their new one is very nice and they do work with the community to integrate frequently suggested features, unlike Basecamp :( I think aC is doing a good job in attempting to take market share away from Basecamp by offering features that Basecamp refuses to. Granted, neither is perfect, but it looks like aC is trying harder.

Btw, if you’re interested in project management apps (like me, cause I’m weird), give Staction (http://staction.com) a try if you can get your hands on the private beta (I got one but I can’t invite people myself). They have a twitter+basecamp approach which is kind of unique, but may be confusing for most clients :(

]]> By: Tom http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/comment-page-1/#comment-1184 Tom Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:54:12 +0000 #comment-1184 Hi Vera, Thanks for your comment. Bare in mind here ActiveCollab are doing their best to take market share from Basecamp (and I hope for the benefit of the free market they continue to do so). I'm fairly sure when I reviewed the product it didn't have the functionality you mentioned but I would obviously urge any interested party to do a full review of it first. The other big change since my writing is ActiveCollab is nolonger free! Cheers, Tom Hi Vera,

Thanks for your comment. Bare in mind here ActiveCollab are doing their best to take market share from Basecamp (and I hope for the benefit of the free market they continue to do so). I’m fairly sure when I reviewed the product it didn’t have the functionality you mentioned but I would obviously urge any interested party to do a full review of it first.

The other big change since my writing is ActiveCollab is nolonger free!

Cheers,
Tom

]]> By: Vera http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/comment-page-1/#comment-1183 Vera Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:46:43 +0000 #comment-1183 Those are great suggestions! I didn't even think about the "close topic" button, that would help SO much! Also, moving messages from one thread to another if they are off topic (which they often are...) would be a life saver. However, I want to disagree with you on activeCollab being an exact copy. They have tickets (!!), custom user permissions (!), to-do scheduling and priorities (!!!!!!++), project templates (!) all of which are essential to effective project management. They have a lot more extra features of course, but these are just a few that made me switch. You really should have given it more of your time before claiming that it was nothing but a copy... Those are great suggestions! I didn’t even think about the “close topic” button, that would help SO much! Also, moving messages from one thread to another if they are off topic (which they often are…) would be a life saver.

However, I want to disagree with you on activeCollab being an exact copy. They have tickets (!!), custom user permissions (!), to-do scheduling and priorities (!!!!!!++), project templates (!) all of which are essential to effective project management. They have a lot more extra features of course, but these are just a few that made me switch. You really should have given it more of your time before claiming that it was nothing but a copy…

]]> By: Editor @ WhyBaseCampSux.org http://ok-cool.com/posts/read/73-why-whybasecampsuxorg-erm-sux/comment-page-1/#comment-1052 Editor @ WhyBaseCampSux.org Tue, 07 Oct 2008 01:44:41 +0000 #comment-1052 >>@Mark: I forgot to mention http://www.whybasecampsux.org/ has a lot of other project management adverts too. ;) Yeah it does. It finally pays my hosting bill plus some beer money. :) But they only came after >1.5 years and like I said I'm trying to figure out how to move off a sux site and move it to a legitimate list of alternatives because there is huge value in the list for people who need to select such a product. @Tom: Yeah, I just ran across your post the other day. The site is by no means something I think about (or monitor) very frequently. :-) Anway, @Mark & @Tom thanks for being respectful and helping me shine some light on Basecamp/37 Signals because, as they say, light is the best disinfectant. With your post people don't even need to see my site to get the gist of my complaints. P.S. Note that I linked back to you: http://www.whybasecampsux.org/#press >>@Mark: I forgot to mention http://www.whybasecampsux.org/ has a lot of other project management adverts too. ;)

Yeah it does. It finally pays my hosting bill plus some beer money. :)

But they only came after >1.5 years and like I said I’m trying to figure out how to move off a sux site and move it to a legitimate list of alternatives because there is huge value in the list for people who need to select such a product.

@Tom: Yeah, I just ran across your post the other day. The site is by no means something I think about (or monitor) very frequently. :-)

Anway, @Mark & @Tom thanks for being respectful and helping me shine some light on Basecamp/37 Signals because, as they say, light is the best disinfectant. With your post people don’t even need to see my site to get the gist of my complaints.

P.S. Note that I linked back to you: http://www.whybasecampsux.org/#press

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